I’ll be honest this AV debate has me confused and I’m usually pretty certain of where I stand on things. I started off thinking that I was going to vote no but some friends of mine made a strong case to vote yes. So I’m writing this article to help my own thought process and hopefully yours as well.
I’m not going to explain the whole system in detail. With AV instead of having just one vote you have the option but not obligation to also vote for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. preference.
Reasons For and Against
Argument For – More voter choice
The main argument for AV is that it gives voters more choice. Instead of just voting for your first choice you can also indicate you’re second choice and more if you wish. This makes it more likely the candidate will achieve a majority share of the vote. The argument goes that this will act as a stronger mandate and encourage people to get more involved in the political process.
J’s thoughts
It sounds like a good idea in theory. I imagine many voters would welcome the opportunity to add a second or more preferences to their vote.
J’s concern
Imagine a marginal constituency with the two main competitors Labour and Lib Dem. The Conservatives have no chance of winning.
A strong Labour supporter votes just for the Labour party. He ignore any other preferences because he doesn’t want the Lib Dems to win and he certainly doesn’t want to vote conservative.
A Conservative supporter votes for the Conservatives first and then because he doesn’t want Labour in he puts the Lib Dems as his second choice.
The first and second preferences count for the same and because this is a marginal constituency there is no chance of a majority with the first round of votes. Essentially the Labour supporter’s vote counts once and the Conservative supporter’s vote counts twice. (In the first round he votes conservative, in the second he votes for the lib-dems instead when the conservatives drop out.) Is this fair? AV supporters would argue it is, during any one round everyone is still voting once. I’m not so sure it is fair and this leads me on to the next point against AV.
Argument Against – All preferences have the same Weight
I’m not sure it’s right that someone’s 5th choice has the same weight as someone else’s 1st. In fact it almost feels undemocratic. Why didn’t they just weight the vote prefences differently! i.e. a first choice counts for more than a second and a second more than a third etc… Increasingly as I write this article I can’t help thinking that the whole system is half baked and badly thought out.
Argument For – Less Tactical Voting
Pro AV supporters argue that the AV system eliminates the need for tactical voting therefore making the system fairer.
J’s thoughts
I do believe that AV will reduce the amount of tactical voting. With the current system many voters vote for parties other than the ones they support because their own parties have no chance of winning. With the AV system you can vote for both your own party (even though it won’t win) and another party as a second choice.
I think we would be kidding ourselves if we thought this would eliminate tactical voting entirely. People will always come up with elaborate ways to support their party. That said I do believe AV would help with the problem of tactical voting.
Argument Against – Time and Cost
There’s no doubt AV will take a lot longer to count (estimates suggest 5 times longer and because of this you will have to pay counters more.) There will also be costs in switching over to the new system. Overall costs have been put at £250million
J’s thoughts
At this time of austerity it does seem stupid to waste money on changing the voting system. That said of the £250 million almost £100million has already been lost on the referendum alone. We might as well spend the other £150 million if AV really is the right system but we better be damn sure.
Argument For – Fairer and More Engaging
One of the strongest arguments against the current voting system is that people in safe seats feel disempowered. There votes ultimately mean almost nothing since the same party is always bound to win.
J’s thoughts
AV will do very little to solve this problem, safe seats will continue to remain safe. This problem is really more of an argument for proportional representation.
Argument Against – It’s Complicated! Would it Put People Off Voting
Whatever people say about this AV system it’s definitely more complicated than the current system. For me this is the biggest and probably decisive point against AV. The system is complicated.
Do I have to put a second preference? / How many prefences do I or can I put?/When does my 4th preference count? Etc. !#$%^&*
J’s Thoughts
My biggest concern is that it might discourage people from voting. Am I being patronising? I don’t think so. People are busy and who can be bothered to go through the rules of a voting system? Are you going to vote if you don’t know how the system works. Some will but I fear some will be put off. 1 vote keeps it simple.
My Conclusion
Keep it Simple. I started off writing this article genuinely not sure which way I would vote. I’ve concluded the current system may not be perfect but AV isn’t the right replacement for us. Our democracy is strongest when we keep things simple.
Thanks Victor that means a lot. Most politicians never give us an honest opinion and often deliberately complicate things. This article was an attempt to get past that.
dude !! u actually helped me understand alot !! i mean like all those articles r full of BS political terms which i dont get a single shit out of it…..your pros n cons r very simple to understand, thanks man
n yeah i do agree with u that the simple majority system isnt the best thing but its still good to be used
Thanks Ric. I agree, it’s been hard to find simple arguments of the benefits and weaknesses of the new system. I’ve been disappointed with both sides campaigns.
Ah brilliant, thanks for the info. Something that really annoys me is that I had to google arguments for/against just to get some kind of idea how this would work out in the real world. All that I’ve read so far has just been political posturing and things like ‘don’t vote yes because the XYZ party supports it’… very frustrating.
Ta again! very useful.
I had not made up my mind before writing the article and I’m sorry and a little offended you feel that way. I always doubt everything and I made it quite clear at the start of the article what my current state of mind was when I began. This article was simply me writing down my thought process and trying to help others. It is ridiculous to suggest that it’s insulting that people say AV is complicated. Personally I do find it complicated, certainly more so than the current system. Nick Clegg even misuderstood the system. http://frostmagazine.com/2011/04/clegg-av-gaffe/
I had not made up my mind before writing the article and I’m sorry and a little offended you feel that way. I always doubt and challenge everything and I made it quite clear at the start of the article my current state of mind. This article was simply me writing down my thought process and trying to help others. It is ridiculous to suggest that it’s insulting that people say AV is complicated. Personally I do find it complicated, certainly more so than the current system. I note Nick Clegg even misunderstood the system.
It seems as though you had already made your mind up when writing this article. It is insulting the way people go on about how complicated AV is. It is a straight forward system that anyone could understand if they had the rules presented to them. It is the same as anything else in life. Something unfamiliar may need a little explanation before it becomes clear. Like learning Snakes and Ladders. That’s not so hard is it.
OK a 5th choice is worth the same as a first choice for the same reason everybody’s vote is worth the same in the final round of any run-off, difference there is you don’t know who’s voting for what preference.
Thanks Heather that means a lot :D
This has been so helpful! The pros and cons in plain terms really makes it easier, thank you! :D
There are of course voting systems where voters give a ‘rating’ to each candidate, but these have their own problems (as do all voting systems).
In AV it’s no different to a run-off election, like used to elect the Tory party leader, in that everybody gets one vote in each round (although in an actual run off everybody gets a chance to change their minds, but this would not be practical for a general election due to cost and time, and if your preferences are honest you wouldn’t want to change anyway).
The lower preferences have a ‘lower weighting’ only in so much as they are less likely to be used than the higher preferences.
The point being we are only being offered AV or FPTP and FPTP is a really bad system for electing someone from more that 2 alternatives because two similar candidates can split the vote and let an opposing candidate with minority support win.
Hi Nigel. Thanks for your comment. I understand that a voters previous choice is discarded when the new preference comes in. Reading it back I don’t think my example is very clear so I think I may amend it. Although in any one round their vote may only count once it does feel like they are voting more than once when the second or third preference comes in.
I still think there is an issue that someones first choice preference is worth the same as someone’s 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc choice. I believe a weighted system would be fairer and I don’t see why it couldn’t be implemented.
Can I comment on your “All preferences have the same Weight” argument and explain why this is the case, and why it is fair – it’s essentially the ‘one person one vote’ principle.
Think of an AV election as a series of FPTP elections – in each round everybody who has a preference votes for their preferred candidate (ie their highest preference candidate of those running) and if someone get more than 50% of the vote they have won, otherwise the bottom candidate is eliminated and there is another round with the remaining candidates.
In each round everybody gets one vote – it doesn’t matter who they supported in the previous rounds. This is clearly fair and in line with what happens in FPTP elections, where those voting tactically (ie for their 2nd or lower preference) get the same vote as ‘real’ supporters.
This also shows the invalidity of the ‘some people’s vote counts twice’ argument – everybody who has a preference gets their vote counted once in each round.