Gordon Ramsay Interview

Those who would like to see Gordon Ramsay in prison (including rival chefs, certain critics, and one or two specific journalists) will be disappointed to discover that his new series, Gordon Behind Bars, does not follow the famously volatile chef embarking on a lengthy custodial sentence. Instead, it is a thought-provoking, astonishing and occasionally moving look at Ramsay’s efforts to set up a catering business with the inmates of HMP Brixton.

Here, Ramsay reveals just how scary the experience was, why he’s convinced this could make a massive difference to prison life, and what made him want to tackle such a complex project. And, speaking of tackles…

First off, Gordon, how are you recovering from Teddy Sheringham’s somewhat robust tackle in the recent Soccer Aid match?

I’m all fine, thank you for asking. I didn’t see that one coming – I suppose no-one would have! I’ve never had a problem with my back up until now. I felt slightly embarrassed, getting stretchered off. I had this horrendous spasm that put my back into shock. I couldn’t feel the back of my legs. But I’m 100 per cent better, and ready to go for my next run.

So your new series is Gordon Behind bars – what’s it all about?

This isn’t just a ‘let’s go and cook along with Gordon in prison’ thing. The idea came from the fact that there are approximately 80,000 inmates across the country now, which is a hell of a lot. It was about getting them doing something with their time, giving something back, and also getting job-ready. The biggest problem is the re-offending percentages, people just go round and round in the system.

It sounds like an incredibly complicated project to take on, on a number of levels. Why did you want to do this?

I quite like that jeopardy, those up-against-the-wall odds. I don’t like it when it’s over-comfortable, too easy, something that can be done in two or three weeks. I like a challenge. And personally, I’ve dealt with these kind of guys on many occasions, whether in a Young Offenders Unit when we were filming The F Word, or dealing with my little brother, who’s been an addict for 15 years. When we were filming in the Young Offenders Unit in Leeds, seven years ago, that’s when I started to think of the huge missed opportunity in these places. There was so much excitement and boisterousness from the guys in there, but they had nothing to do in there, none of it was being harnessed.

What was it like walking into prison for the first time? How did you feel?

I’ve been in a few dangerous situations. But this has been one of the most intimidating experiences, because at times, you could just sense the atmosphere reaching boiling point, and you were just waiting for that fight to start. Everyone got particularly nervous when the cameras were around. And we were a small crew. The sense of intimidation was rife. You could feel it in the air the minute you walked in there. It was bloody intense.

How did you select the prisoners to take part? Did a lot of them want to do it?

We had an overwhelming response. We spoke to over 100 prisoners, we had to find out what they were in for, what their sentence was and they had to be security cleared. You have to understand that a lot of them were on remand, so they get moved on a regular basis.

What were the biggest logistical problems you faced?

If someone wanted a knife or a peeler or a spatula or a plastic scraper, you’d have to go to the shadow board on the wall, take out what you wanted, sign for it, give them a number, and then they weren’t allowed more than two utensils out at any one time. When one thing went missing, it was bedlam, the place would be on lockdown, everyone would be searched, and you’ve lost half a day. Getting them out of bed in the morning was tough as well – they don’t have to be up. Most of them get locked up after dinner, at 5:15pm, and they’re not let out the next day until the morning. So gathering them around was just horrendous. You’d go to every wing, accompanied by an officer, you’d have to take the crap on the wings from those who didn’t get on the course, and so by the end I stopped gathering them, I had to get the officers to do it. But they came in dribs and drabs for the first couple of weeks. I had to say to them “If I say 9am, I really want you in here for 9am.” To be honest, that’s not that early to start.

How hard did you work the prisoners, and how did they find that?

First couple of months was tough because they couldn’t stand on their feet for anything longer than two or three hours, so making bread rolls and soups, that was it. They’d want a break within the first two hours. It was like a social event in there sometimes. They could chat, they can watch TV in their cells, some even have a DVD player. They’ll go to the gym, see the doctor or even the dentist. So the first couple of months it was hard, because they couldn’t work past two or three hours. But after that, you could see some really strong differences in some of them. By the end, I had 95 per cent of the brigade working 7- 8 hours-a-day. And another interesting feature of that was that they would put in a full day, go back to their cell, have dinner, a shower, and slept, as opposed to sitting around getting bored. And they would sleep better because they’d put in a full day’s work.

You can be quite aggressive in the kitchen. Did you have to modify that at all?

I’ve been with offenders, from robbers to smuggling arms to gang members, you name it, we dealt with it. You knew any time that it was going to kick off. It could be about anything. The first big argument was because somebody left his sauce in his cell, and didn’t have it to add to his sandwich at lunchtime. I had to walk on eggshells, because it was very fragile, insecure, awkward temperaments that I was dealing with. Every time something went wrong, you could tell it was going to kick off. They did push my buttons, I did get upset, because there’s only so much you can take before you get to boiling point. And I did end up letting rip in the end.

And lived to tell the tale?

Yeah! One of the inmates complained that I’d dirtied his stove when I was doing a demo to help him get through this exam. What did I get? “You just dirtied my fucking stove?” Man, I flipped.

Were there any stages at which you regretted taking on the project?

About halfway through, I think. One of my guys had been sent to another prison, there were rumours going around that my team was on a jolly, they weren’t working hard, so they were getting treated differently when they were going back onto the wings. Then there was this turning point, when we set up a pop-up bakery in the middle of Clapham, and the response was amazing. I’d been worried that the general consensus of the British public would be ‘They were made by inmates, there’s no way I’m going to eat them,’ but the biggest message coming off the high street was really positive. They were really happy that the prisoners were working. Taking that message back in to the senior management meeting the following day was a real turning point. It meant that these guys, who had made a mistake and were serving their time, were doing something positive, were getting job-ready, and going to leave prison with a better work ethic and a better chance of not reoffending. Of course some won’t make it, but surely it’s a good start?

Did you form close relationships with any of them?

It was hard, because you spent so much time with them, you couldn’t help yourself, you got close to them. And they were desperate for the course to continue, it was a lifeline for them, to help them for their rehabilitation and get them job-ready. There was one guy in there, who showed such amazing determination. He lost touch with his family and when he left the army he started taking drugs. But he was such a talented guy, was passing every exam with distinction. He’s been on methadone for the past 12 months, and is out in 18 months, and is as keen as anything. Then there is Andrew who is working for the Roast group and he is doing really well.

Did you uncover any talent there who you would consider employing?

Well, Paul was working for me at The Savoy Grill. David I’ve got my eye on. He was pretty disciplined. There was another guy from Brixton, called Adonis. Smart guy, 6’5″, he got caught with a shotgun under his bed. He’s a talented, talented guy, so methodical, everything was really precise.

Is the idea in all of this to create a sustainable business that will exist and grow without you being involved on a day-to-day basis?

Yes. There are a large number of individuals in these prisons who are dying to get off their arse and work. So we’re looking at getting funding the Badboy Bakery so it can continue and grow. I’m hoping when we submit a business plan to Ken Clarke, the government will find someone to put money into it. And Café Nero has been brilliant, they’ve set up a pilot scheme whereby we’re flogging our amazing lemon treacle slice in eleven of their branches. They are presently not taking any money for them, all the takings for the cake going back into the Badboy Bakery. And it’s selling amazingly well, challenging their caramel slice to be the bestseller. So early indications are that this could be a real hit, if we get support from the government.

At some points you found the prison a terrible, oppressive place, at others you said you felt it was more akin to a holiday camp. What are your opinions now about prison?

What struck me most was the waste of time, effort and energy that could be channelled into something incredibly positive. Lying in bed, reading the newspaper, deciding what you’re going to have for dinner, playing the X-box, watching TV, going to the gym, their minds are so bored. They resent the outside world, they have a grudge, and they’re losing their self-esteem on an hourly basis. They have lost their will to work, and had all responsibility taken away from them. For me, it’s such a waste, such a missed opportunity. They’re just using the system, they’ve not motivated to do anything. They’ve got everything they need. If they were given more incentives to do some work, to get job ready, to be disciplined, it would help them, and surely their time would also go faster.

Do you think the project made a big difference to the self-esteem of the guys you worked with?

Yeah, I think it made a massive difference. Some of them had tears in their eyes when they got their certificates at the end, and they were saying “Is this going to continue?” And I said “If I can get the finance, and the support, and get individuals to understand the hunger of some of the guys in here to work, then of course. Currently we have funding in place until the end of July, while we look for an investor to keep it going. They would be mortified if they couldn’t work on a daily basis. At the end, we set up a pop-up restaurant in the prison, and served an amazing lunch for 50 guests, local restaurants and catering employers and community figures, and it was amazing. After that lunch it was like having a team of chefs, I almost forgot they were prisoners. In their minds now, they are ready and hungry to get out with real and realistic ambitions. They go back to the cell tired at the end of the day, they sleep well, and their sentence goes a thousand times faster.

Gordon Behind Bars is on Channel 4 on Tuesdays at 9pm. Thanks to Channel 4.

St Giles Trust SOS Gang Project's Fifth Anniversary

In the wake of the London riots, the spotlight has turned towards gangs and criminality. It seemed that an entire generation was lost after the riots that spread across England and ruined lives.

But there’s another side that doesn’t get the publicity it deserves. I attended the St Giles Trust SOS Gang Project’s fifth anniversary.

The St Giles Trust rehabilitates young offenders and Frost has always given them our full support. With so much negativity regarding gangs and criminality in the press, it is easy to forget that they are many people out there doing positive things.

Read more about them here.

The St Giles Trust is an amazing charity, doing amazing things. They have a lot of support, including some in very high places. Chief Executive Rob Owen read aloud an email from the Duke of Cambridge who is a supporter, alongside his wife, Catherine.

Junior Smart, a talented and genuine young man who deserves his own inspirational award, had this to say: “The whole idea of the awards for me personally is to give something back to the people who have achieved, to promote positive practice and to show others that ex-offenders can make that whole 360 degree change.

“Our award-winners this year included a young girl who had given up her children rather than have them go through the trauma of the court process (I don’t know many people who would do that) and a young person who had been stabbed in the face – and rather than seek reprisals – had gone back to education and completed a multitude of courses. The last award-winner was a teacher who was responsible for training and teaching the majority of the team and our clients in the community.

“Finally. it is worth mentioning how much it costs to keep someone in custody – £75,000 a year per person – and that does not include the costs in catching them, bringing them before a court or the costs to their victims and communities.”

For more information, and to support the St Giles Trust go to www.stgilestrust.org.uk

St Giles Trust: SOS Project. Creating Positive Futures by rehabilitating young offenders.

‘Young Person (18) stabbed’ ‘16 year old girl robbed at gun point’ ‘Knives have become a fashion accessory among teenagers’ ‘Young person killed in cross fire’

It seems we can’t escape shocking headlines that are becoming standard fare for society’s media. If the headlines are to be believed then we are dealing with an issue that is out of control and one where there is no help or way out for young people involved.
According to recent Police reports there are around 200 gangs in London alone and according to a recent news report as many as 4 in ten young people have admitted to carrying a knife for protection.

Whilst this might be a gloomy picture there are projects out there that make a difference.
I spent the morning with Junior Smart; Team Leader for the ground breaking SOS Gangs Project under London Charity St Giles Trust to find out why his project is successful and what can be done to turn the tide concerning young people, gangs and violence.

Junior Smart is softly spoken thirty something male. An ex-gang member, his offence led to a ten year sentence inside prison and a meeting with St Giles which operate in a number of prisons around the country. Thanks to St Giles and initial funding by Southwark Council, The SOS Gangs project was born; the first complete ex-offender led project in the country. That was back in 2006, since then the project has been seen as best practice four years running and received critical acclaim. Even more importantly thanks to the project he set up around 300 young people involved in or at risk of gang involvement have seen their lives transformed as a result. This has earned him the nickname ‘the million dollar man’ by his contemporaries for the millions his project has potentially saved society.

He sits opposite me smiling – “Some people think that the best idea is to just lock these young people up, but they either forget or don’t know how much it actually costs. It costs around £40,000 to keep just one offender in custody for a year, multiply that by the current prison population (which is 86,000 and rising) and we literally are talking billions of pounds of tax payers money. When you think that 75% of young people who leave prison go on to re-offend within 2 years its just jaw dropping to think just how much money is wasted.

He chuckles – it actually costs more money to send a young person to prison than it does to send them to Eton college, can you believe it?”

I nod my head in absolute amazement; it is true that we are living in times where we are reminded consistently that there are cutbacks because every penny counts. But I am interested to know what the project is and how it works.

“SOS Gangs project is a tailor-made, holistic support scheme which is proactive in prisons and the communities” he explains, “Our core goal is to reduce re-offending by creating opportunities for change. We engage young people with the aim of helping them build realistic goals for the future and assist them to get back into education, training and employment. It needs to be tailor made because when you think about it, every individual has their own unique reasons for offending. It might be financial, it might be peer pressure, it might be grounded in their lack of self identity or embedded in where they live. The problem with common punitive punishments is that it adopts a blanket approach to all and never addresses any underlying issues, whereas with the project we take the offence as just a small part of a bigger picture.”

It is this core goal that has been the SOS Project’s prime area of achievement. In the four years that the project has been running over 300 young people have been reached with just 12% being recalled for further offences against the national average of 75%.

“Where there are underlying issues we address them, working with other agencies as necessary. So for example we might assist with helping them find accommodation or to move to a different area to get away from old associates, we might assist them in breaking free of their drug habits or in being violent to their partner.”

I am curious to know why the SOS project has succeeded
.
“I think our success has been down to a number of reasons, firstly we are completely ex-offender led, which always seems to be a bit taboo, but when you think about it, it makes absolute sense, who better to assist ex-offenders and young people than someone who has actually been there and done it, we are infinitely more credible because we know the challenges, and the pressures on young people; we know the terrain and its pitfalls. Secondly all the workers are passionate about what they do; they really care about making a difference. Finally we offer complete on-going support so our cases aren’t time bound. We are there until the needs are met.”

I ask about youth violence and gangs. Junior is quick to enlighten me. “I dislike the term ‘gang’ because of the way the media have blown it up out of proportion. Although the truth is quite serious, in reality it is not as bleak as the media would have us believe” he explains “for example it is not against the law to be in a gang, and in fact quite a few of the young people we work with don’t think that they are in anything more than a group of friends until things get out of hand. It’s then that they think they have no choice but to make a stand. So when we are working with young people what we are actually targeting their behaviour because it is that which creates the fear and the need to defend or protect. It is also that what creates the impression to the public that every group of young people on an estate or on the street is in a gang. The sad thing is just by fear alone a young person will carry a knife and then either end up arrested, with a criminal record or a worse still a victim.”

I ask if it possible that a perpetrator could also be a victim, Junior agrees “A lot of young people aren’t aware that around 60% of those that carry a knife end up stabbed with their own weapon. So when we work with clients, and in schools and communities we impart tools for young people to use on a daily basis for example around managing conflict so they are empowered to make better informed decisions.”

I ask about the recent headlines in the press. The room goes quiet, junior responds.
“It is the victims I feel really sorry for, it might be easy for cynics to think that because we are ex-offenders we are more on the side of the offender than anything else but that is simply not true. We do what we do to prevent victims. My first experience of crime was when I was just four years old and our home was burgled. I saw my mother go from being a top nurse to being a recluse in her own home. Part of me is infuriated at the way the system treats victims, it is almost as if they have an unspoken voice once an offender is arrested and, equally from an offenders perspective they never truly have to take into account the impact that their behaviour has had not just on people but on their community.” He looks at me seriously “it’s an understatement that not enough is being done, that’s why I am a big fan of alternatives such restorative justice and whenever possible we try to mediate on behalf of the client with the families and communities involved.”

So in this time of cuts does Junior think will there be any reduction with regard to the project I ask. Junior shrugs “You know, we are dealing with uncertain times and whilst we have been really fortunate that Southwark council and T2A have kept us going we are a charity and depend on the support of the people, charitable trusts and funds to stay where we are. It is really strange, because in times like this people always try and re-invent the wheel and instead of going with what works, they go with what does’nt. For me I am more concerned about the clients because if we are not here where do they go.”

Junior takes a strong look at the headlines and makes an acute point – “The problem is with the headlines is that it tends to make it very easy to forget that these are actually just young people. Someone’s son someone’s brother, uncle, sister or even father. Every time I hear or see a news report I am reminded of why I do what I do. These are young people with needs, with aspirations, just with the wrong motivation and they need our help.”

Case studies

Southwark case study

Client A – aged 22, this client is the eldest in a single parent family of two younger brothers.

Not typical of a criminal background this client did well at school and had ambitions of going to the army. He entered into pre-entry training in the armed forces at the age of 16. However during an exercise the client was caught in a fire and received serious burns to his hands and face. This had an emotional and psychological effect resulting in the client being medically discharged. The client became emotionally despondent and was diagnosed with depression. This became a catalyst for negative thinking and behaviour and subsequent drug use. Client A began to drift into negative circles and became involved in petty crime escalating to a street robbery, for which he received an 8 month prison sentence. He was released with no support, and then he committed another offence; burglary for which he received an 18 month prison sentence for which he was released January earlier this year. He came across the SOS Project through probation who had heard about our work. They who referred him to us because – like the last time he was released – he had no support networks and would yet again be homeless. They were also concerned that he would once more become involved in criminal activity and this time the seriousness would escalate. We began working with him in April; a credible mentor from SOS Project meeting him for the first time at his home. Since that time we have stabilised his living conditions by finding him permanent private rented accommodation. By working holistically and by networking with other agencies we engaged him with NACRO education and employment team to increase his employability skills. Client A has identified that he would like to go to college in September to study plumbing or computing. We are providing ongoing support to assist him in achieving this. Our SOS Project caseworker speaks to the Client 2-3 times a week, seeing him in person at least once a week. Our work with Client A continues and our focus with him is on self-empowerment and independent living. Client A attributes his turn around down to the caseworker he has working with him in his own words “if I didn’t have his support there is no way I would be where I am now”

Ashfield Case study – Client B

I met Client B on my first visit to Ashfield where he was serving his 2nd custodial sentence.

Prior to B’s first custodial sentence he was living with his step mother in south east London. Due to the nature of his first offence he was unable to return to the family home. Having never met his birth mother and an extremely troubled relationship with his father he was released with minimal support from social services. Post release Client B was homeless in an area where he knew no one and had very little support. As a consequence he re-offended and was given a custodial sentence. He was just 16 years of age at this time.

During his second custodial sentence he was granted his early release but with no accommodation he was unable to be released.

A second referral was made to children’s services which was returned. The case was finally accepted and Client B was found to be ‘a child in need’ by social services, which means that they were obliged to provide suitable Temporary Accommodation (T/A). So Client B was released without prior notification and told to report to his YOT where he was accommodated for the weekend.

Once his T/A had run out he was told to go to the Homeless Persons Unit to be housed as a homeless person. He was later found intentionally homeless and was offered no other help. He was provided with accommodation for one night by St Giles Trust.

Our SOS Ashfield worker consulted his solicitor and after which high court proceedings were started against the Local authority for them to find him as a child in need under sec.17 of the children’s act. The case was finally heard at the High Court and the local authority were found to be neglecting their duty of care and were order to provide Client B with suitable accommodation and support.

Client B has been working with the SOS project for nearly 9 months and is now attending college full time with aspirations of owning his own business one day.

www.stgilestrust.org.uk

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